[Csped] Power2People Goals

Zain Shamsi zshamsi at Trinity.edu
Fri Feb 2 20:54:12 CST 2007


Yeah, any Linux distribution which provides a highly configurable 
installation would work well - like Gentoo. There are also other small 
Linux distros which we might want to take a look at...like some of these 
mentioned here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniLinux
They usually come with a bunch of simple applications like a word 
processor / spreadsheet program / browser etc. and are meant to run on 
systems with very low resources

As for the portability issue - we might want to consider that if we end 
up building a prototype, it would be a significantly different 
experience - in terms of price and complexity to build a portable system 
as compared with one that isnt. I like Tim's idea on this - as it doesnt 
have to have built in display capability. Possibly a MicroATX form 
factor which can still allow standardized components..but of course the 
prices would have to be looked into.

I am pretty comfortable with the hardware as I've built a few systems 
before, so I would rather work on the software portion - OS / Applications

- Zain



Glenn Kavanagh wrote:
> Tim hits on a very good point about the operating system.  However, I 
> would say that using distro like Gentoo would be even better than 
> Ubunutu.  There is a large support for Gentoo, and you can compile 
> everything (applications included) to run faster for your specific 
> platform (processor).  Usually this would prove to be a difficult task 
> for someone inexperienced with Linux, but we are trying to make a 
> system that receives updates on it's own.  Because we are building 
> identical machines to distribute, we can compile all of the new 
> applications where ever the central server is located and then allow 
> the users to download the newly compiled updates from our Master Server.
>
> Along with this, GNOME and KDE are likely out of the question because 
> they do have a fairly big memory footprint.  Xfce would be a good 
> choice because it is much lighter weight, it can run anything written 
> to run for the GTK+ toolkit (GNOME), and is also user friendly.  If we 
> get desperate for resources, we could always go with just a window 
> manager (e.g. FVWM), instead of an entire desktop environment.  If we 
> chose this route, we wouldn't be able to run Open Office and would 
> have to rely on AbiWord and an equivalent Spreadsheet application.
>
> As far as portability goes, it seems that the more portable, the more 
> expensive the system is going to be (see current desktop price vs. and 
> equivalent laptop price).  This would be one of the first problems 
> that the hardware team would need to look into.
>
> >From the power and network access point, I think that we could take 
> two different approaches here.  One, assume that we have both of 
> these.  Dr. Howland mentioned that we could assume the environment 
> that we are working in has certain amenities.  Power and a network 
> connection (wired/less) could be those things.  The other would be to 
> take one or both and come up with a plan to provide them for the 
> users.  I think that designing a way to efficiently provide a 
> networking solution could even be one of our team's goals.
>
> As for restoring the machine to its original state, that could pretty 
> easily be done over the network... I think.  Essentially we just save 
> the users' home directories and overwrite any files that are out of 
> sink with the state they should be in by default.
>
> So for the teams, I was thinking something along these lines:
>
> 1.  Hardware
> 2.  OS
> 3.  Applications
> 4.  Network Infrastructure (this could include the main server and 
> distributing updates)
>
> Preference:  working on the OS portion.
>
> Glenn
>
> Tim Nunamaker wrote:
>
>     I think it's fairly obvious that some Linux distro is going to be our
>     best bet for the OS/software. As Dr. Howland mentioned, I think Ubuntu
>     would be a pretty good choice. I've only been using Linux for a few
>     months, and I've only used Fedora and Ubuntu for extended periods of
>     time, but I do know that Ubuntu has a lot of community support and I
>     haven't really had any major hardware configuration problems. Other
>     distro's like Slackware would simply be too difficult for inexperienced
>     users to operate.
>
>     In particular, I think Xubuntu looks pretty appealing:
>     http://www.xubuntu.org/ 
>
>     >From the main page: "Xubuntu is a complete GNU/Linux based operating
>     system with an Ubuntu base. It is lighter on system requirements and
>     tends to be more efficient than Ubuntu with GNOME or KDE, since it uses
>     the Xfce Desktop environment, which makes it ideal for old or low-end
>     machines, thin-client networks, or for those who would like to get more
>     performance out of their hardware."
>
>     Sounds like just what we need. The only disadvantage to using it vs
>     GNOME or KDE that I can think of is that it's less mainstream and so
>     there is less support and it also wouldn't support all of the KDE/Gnome
>     applications so well. On the other hand, I think that's a fair trade off
>     considering our design limitations.
>
>     The huge benefit that I see to using Linux is the availability of so
>     much free software. I can't think of anything we would want to put on
>     the machines that we couldn't get in a matter of minutes, especially
>     using a package manager such as Yum or Synaptic. This will be an
>     especially useful feature for the end user, who will probably have
>     limited access to software otherwise. In addition, major Linux distros
>     usually have pretty good support for languages.
>
>     Now that I've got that out of the way... I think Joey question about
>     portability is an important one. This is going to affect not only the
>     hardware that we can use (as well as its cost), but also how we deploy
>     the units as a whole. If we go the route of building desktops with big
>     towers, then for any kind of update capability the user will most likely
>     have to have some kind of local network/internet connection, or some
>     means of transporting a big computer to a location where he/she can
>     access one.
>
>     I think a laptop would be a bit on the extreme side as far as
>     portability goes. If we can possibly squeeze the size down to something
>     like the Dell machines in the library, then they will be transportable
>     but can still use some standard components. In addition, the machines
>     don't have to have built in displays to be portable. In the case of Dr.
>     Howland's example, the school, maybe students can bring their computers
>     home and plug an old 15" CRT into them, which might not be too expensive
>     (depending on the cost to deliver a bulky item to a distant location).
>
>     I think the best way to approach this project is to, at the least,
>     assume the following:
>
>     Users will periodically have access to power (maybe they can charge a
>     battery).
>     Users will periodically have access to either a: the internet, or b: a
>     network with software updates available.
>
>     Joey mentioned the possibility of connecting the machine to a more
>     powerful machine for updates. I think this is an important point to
>     consider. Maybe we can design a system where a central, powerful machine
>     makes up for some of the weaknesses of the smaller ones, which can
>     connect to it. If anyone can think of specific applications of this,
>     please chime in.
>
>     I also think we need a way of restoring the machine to its original
>     state. I think this can be easily done by distributing a few CDs or DVDs
>     with hard disk images on them to locations where these machines will be
>     deployed, and if the system needs to be wiped, it can be easily done by
>     loading the image onto the drive. Since every computer will have
>     identical components, this should work pretty well.
>
>     Sorry for the long read, I'll get to the point and give the criteria
>     which I think are important:
>
>     1) Software usability/maintainability/availability
>     2) Non-bulky hardware which will allow the machine to be transported
>     3) Some form of AC power
>     4) A network adapter for a network/internet connection
>     5) Ability to restore the machine to its original state
>
>     As far as my personal preferences go, I'd prefer working with the OS and
>     selecting software packages, but hardware would be good too.
>      
>     Everyone should feel free to make comments about anything and everything.
>
>     Tim
>
>     On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 17:17 -0600, John Howland wrote:
>       
>
>         On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Joey wrote:
>
>             
>
>             Ill start with the question.  Are we looking for a portable system?
>             Clearly there are pros and cons to a portable machine.
>                   
>
>         All of the choices/criteria are yours to determine.  Portability adds
>         (probably) to overall cost and complexity.  However, portability could
>         be defined to be easily movable, but not operable when not connected to
>         some sort of power grid.  For example, suppose the target user was a
>         school setting where, for security reasons, the machines had to be
>         moved to a secure locker, but when they were in use they could be connected
>         to a power source.
>
>             
>
>             Things our system should be capable of:
>
>             1.  Connecting to a network for weather information, email, web browsing
>             and so on.
>             2.  Word processing
>                   
>
>         Spreadsheet?
>
>             
>
>             3. Multi-user capability, with extremely limited access to normal user
>             accounts (the less access the average user has, the less maintenance the
>             system is likely to need).
>             4. Very basic and easy interface... much of what is available in open
>             source operating systems will be completely useless to the average user
>             of these systems.
>                   
>
>         Gnome seems to be most linux distro's choice, but there are lots of lighter
>         weight gui's.  See Ubuntu for example.
>
>             
>
>             5. Update capability, likely over a local connection, possibly to a
>             central, more powerful machine.
>             6. Some sort of method to completely reset the system to its original
>             configuration, in case of extreme malfunction. Obviously the easier the
>             better
>             7. Install that can be easily changed for locality.  Language, special
>             applications and so on.
>
>             I don't have much to say about hardware, it might be best to figure out
>             what we want to be able to do and then build our system around that.  It
>                   
>
>         User requirements! Radical!  UML might even be useful here to get a handle
>         users.
>
>             
>
>             would be a shame to build a system, only to realize later it is
>             completely useless for our goals.
>
>             Doesn't matter to me what I end up doing, Im more than willing to take
>             any job nobody else wants to do, although there are enough interesting
>             topics that I don't see that being a huge problem...
>
>             I hope to see more of these by tomorrow!  See you all in Software
>             Engineering HAHAHA (Im sure we will have loads of fun :))
>
>             Joey
>
>
>
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>                   
>
>         _______________________________________________________________
>         John E. Howland       url: http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~jhowland/
>         Computer Science    email: jhowland at ariel.cs.trinity.edu
>         Trinity University  voice: (210) 999-7364
>         One Trinity Place     fax: (210) 999-7477
>         San Antonio, Texas  78212-7200
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